Glad you’re here at the Austen Connection! You can see all the Austen Connection conversations including the podcast here. And you can sign up, below, to get all of the conversations dropped into your inbox. Thank you!
Hello friends,
Happy Thanksgiving week. Here’s hoping that wherever you are, and whether or not you’re in Thanksgiving territory, your week is full of giving, gratitude and good things.
Today we have a special podcast episode of a fun and meaningful conversation from our live taping at a one-day conference, “Everybody's Jane Austen.” This special symposium was hosted and produced by the Jane Austen Society of North America's Metro New York region. And it was our honor here at the Austen Connection to speak with two amazing people on the front lines of Austen dialogue: JASNA director Renata Dennis, and Producer Tia A. Smith.
Renata Dennis serves as JASNA’s Georgia Regional Coordinator and is also on the board of JASNA, as well as serving on its Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Committee.
So Renata is on the front lines of discussions about equity, diversity, and inclusion in Austen conversations and scholarship.
And Tia A. Smith is a film producer who develops what she calls “culturally shifting projects that leave lasting imprints.” I love that. These lasting imprints that Tia Smith produces include more than 3,500 hours of television and film, with 15 movies, two documentaries, and four major awards shows to her name.
And we may be burying the lead here: Because Tia A. Smith also executive-produced the most recent film and television adaptation of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, the February 2024 production for Hallmark Channel as part of its Loveuary month of Jane Austen.
Let's get to the conversation, which was recorded live at the Leonard Nimoy Thalia at Symphony Space in New York City for JASNA Metro New York Region's one-day conference, “Everybody's Jane Austen.”
Because Jane Austen really is for everybody. Enjoy these highlights from the conversation.
Plain Jane
So we have questions! Let's dive into it. For both of you: First, how did you both get introduced to Jane Austen? Let's go back and hear your origin story.
Renata Dennis
I read the book Pride and Prejudice in high school, when I lived in New Jersey, and that was the end of that. And then as a young adult, I happened to be in Winchester Cathedral, Jane's grave, stood over it, prayed over it. That was that.
And then I saw the 1995 Persuasion, 1995 Pride and Prejudice. I don't know if I went back and read the books at that time or not, But PBS did a series of adaptations in the early 2000s. I went online, they had information, and I saw there was a Jane Austen Society of North America. I said, ‘What is that?’ Went online, and there was a group in Atlanta. And that's what started that.
My first AGM was the Brooklyn one, 2012, where Cornel West was one of the speakers. And I thought, “The most militant black philosopher on the planet loves Jane Austen!’ And representation matters.
Plain Jane
That's wonderful. And how wonderful that your first encounter was ... in-person at Winchester, but also the adaptations, which we're talking about today. And then also the community through JASNA.
Tia A. Smith
My first introduction was also in schooling.
So in ninth grade we got introduced to Pride and Prejudice. And I just fell in love with it. I fell in love with the world, the society, and a common thread to me that Jane does, which is individuality. You know, you set up the tone and the environment of what women were going through and what they had to succumb to in certain situations. But there was always a free spirit. There was always this woman or young woman that was pressing through, that was finding her own way, that was - dare I say - bucking the system. And that just resonated with me, especially as my mom is here in the crowd. She's always challenged me … She's like, ‘You're Tia Smithl. You can do anything.’
So a lot of the things that would try to put me in a box or foreshadow my future …I was always taught to be different and to have a voice, so that really spoke to me. That women did not settle. Along with the dreaminess of the love part.
I was also, I had a crush on an upperclassman who was very much like Mr. Darcy. Like, this weird personality. In reflection, I don't even know why I was looking at him and I'm grateful that it didn't turn out that way. But yeah, I mean, it was all of that teenage stuff happening. And things that just felt really familiar for me.
So that was my first introduction.
Plain Jane
I think we can all relate to, Tia, your saying that it was about bucking the system, and it was about empowerment. But it's also about a crush on Mr. Darcy. I think Jane Austen would agree with that herself.
What are some of your favorite contemporary adaptations, like contemporary meaning from the 1970s on? What are some of your faves and fave characters?
Tia A. Smith
Oh my goodness. There are so many. Oh, wow. I mean, we were even talking about the adaptation of Belle, right? And … history, that resonated. There are certain things I know that within culture specifically people of color come from so many different colors. So when you see that spectrum, you know there's more to the story. So that extremely resonated with me, just her story and knowing that we were present in all aspects of history, even though, unfortunately, it hasn't been taught. I know it's thought of as woke material for those that did not know, but I just feel that it's always been there and, unfortunately, it wasn't taught.
So I know that Belle and all of the history from that really resonated with me. I saw myself. I knew that there was more. I knew that there was love that came in all different kinds of colors and that people were actually in place as recipients of that love. So those are the things that I really gravitated to.
Plain Jane
Love comes in a rainbow of colors. It does. That's really beautiful to say.
Renata, what about you? Belle must be one of your favorites, because you are an expert on the real-life historic heroine Dido Elizabeth Belle.
Renata Dennis
Right. She is one of mine. Just finding out about her, I did the talk for our local JASNA groups just as the film was coming out, and … I was looking at the paintings, and then found information.
Of course, Henry Louis Gates has a series. I think it's a series of volumes on persons of color in Western European art. There are 26,000 representations of persons of color throughout that time. And where did they go? These people lived there. They worked in these homes. They were present, but they're not in any of the movies or the books.
Plain Jane
Yeah, and it's interesting: Scholars like Gretchen Gerzina, fiction writers like Vanessa Riley, who worked with you [Tia] on Sense and Sensibility … they're now continuously unearthing the stories of Black lives of the 19th century and 18th century and beyond in Britain. So this is very exciting along with some of the fiction that Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is unearthing as well. It's very important work. What do you think of the adaptations that are happening today and some that you've been involved with, Tia, that are unearthing these stories and also the scholarship reflecting that?
Tia A. Smith
It's exciting because again, they're being unearthed. We're a very resilient people and we're not a monolith. So we have always had to adapt - from bankers to lawyers to people in the house. You know, we come in so many different textures and I'm excited when I got the phone call to even do Sense and Sensibility.
Of course being an Austen fan, I knew that we had to respect the work. We wanted to pull out the tenets of family and also the tenets of sisterhood. And like I said, the theme of this woman who was making these decisions on her own. So it's exciting to do and to be a part of projects like that.
I think it helps everyone to see truly, specifically in America, the fabric of our history. And it comes in so many colors and so many textures.
Plain Jane
So Tia, how does that come out in Sense and Sensibility? It seems like it was pure joy. You've said behind the scenes, so just for the record: Tia really enjoyed that experience!
Tia A. Smith
I was humbled. And then … production is a team sport. No one is doing all of the work. Someone mentioned about fashion, Dr. Wells [Dr. Juliette Wells spoke at the symposium before this panel], I had Kara Saun who did Disney's Descendants and also Project Runway. We were budgeted for 25 costumes. She and her team made 65 custom costumes in a month. Vanessa Riley and I actually were fashion mules. Because we shot in Bulgaria and Ireland, and some of the fabric that she wanted to do came from New York and other places. So she sent us suitcases and we kind of lugged those along. There was nothing else in the suitcases. But it was humbling to see these tiaras and these swatches and the intricacies that we brought along with what she brought, too, to become these full, incredible gowns.
And coats for men. So I had her and then I had Ms. Kim Kimble, who does Beyonce and Zendaya, making 40 wigs. With beads and tendrils and braids and it was amazing to see. And like you said Vanessa was brilliant. I feel like I have a PhD in all of this from the postures, the gloves.
Not having two single people in the same area at the same time. … I'm coming from production. As a producer, you have to keep it moving. You know, I'm bringing all of the teams together. I'm making sure that the creative team is on task. The financial. Everything is really coming together and gelling. And we had to shoot really quickly. Our day was almost over. So the director and I said, ‘Oh, you know, put Elinor and Edward over here.’ She was like, ‘Wait! Wait a minute. He needs his vest. He needs his coat. There is no way he would come in and just a plain shirt. Two single people alone in the same room.’
I'm like, ‘They're playing chess. What are you talking about? Right?!’ So I learned so much from her and this project.
And you know, even that we had Dido Belle on the wall. We had Alessandro de’ Medici, one of the the first Black dukes of Florence in there. [Olaudah] Equiano … And, you know, like, all of this amazing stuff that Africans and African Americans were doing, being entrepreneurs. And it was just explosive for me. It just fed my spirit.
Plain Jane
It is luscious, everything that Tia's talking about - the costumes, the background. And then there are those Easter eggs from Black British history, which are incredible, just as portraits in the background. So you have to watch it and you have to watch it again to just go back and see the Easter eggs that are in there.
Jane's in there too. She is. Two times.
Plain Jane
Oh, okay. I guess I need to watch it yet again! Tia, … you talked about the costuming and all of that. The person bringing all of that together was you. Can you just talk about the process of bringing all those elements together? And then also you filmed a lot in Bulgaria.
Tia A. Smith
Yes. Well, I was coming off of another project and I had just done another project in Vancouver for Hallmark, for their Mahogany division. And I got the phone call from Toni Judkins, the SVP at Hallmark. And she said that when she first got that job at the Mahogany division she always wanted to do a reimagined Sense and Sensibility. Because, again, it showed those tenets of the family, and sisterhood and womanhood.
So, when it got the green light, she was like, ‘OK, Tia. I know you just finished this one, but are you ready to go to Bulgaria?’ And I'm like, ‘Bulgaria? What is happening?’
But then I learned [that] in the production world, Bulgaria [gives a] heavy tax incentive. It's what we call the Canada of Europe. And it's just beautiful.
… The script was already intact. Because a lot of times the network will have certain placements intact already. So I looked at the script, and I wanted to make sure that, again, we respected the body of work. There's a lot of creative liberty that we're given as creatives, to reimagine how we see somebody's body of work. And I just knew for Jane Austen, we just had to do it justice. I think we literally just had Elinor have the wedding at the end. But outside of that, all of the beats and everything else - all within only 83 minutes and 55 seconds - we really tried to take her body of work and respect it.
So, from producing: … It is managing and working with all of the department heads. It's being the liaison with the network. … Making sure that we make our days, that we have enough time. We did this movie in 15 days. Over 150 people, you know, just doing their thing. And we all believed in it. So, it helps when you do have department heads and people that are aligned with the vision that you set forth.
Producing is all-encompassing. And it's the managing of people. It can get very stressful. So, [you] had to be … Dr. Phil, and talk to someone that was not really getting what they needed. And really talk them off the ledge and say, ‘Hey, it's gonna be okay. We're here to do this great project and it's gonna impact.’
So, it is a beautiful wide range of responsibilities, but I enjoy it. Because we have a chance to really express something beautiful and get it out there for you to enjoy.
Plain Jane
Fifteen days. Okay. I'm so glad you said that.
Tia A. Smith
So we shot the interiors in Bulgaria [in 15 days]. And all of the exteriors were in Ireland. And you know Ireland rains. So we're praying that it's not raining. And for the five days that we had to shoot all of the carriage rides, and the castles, and everything else, it did not rain except for the 15 minutes before we were about to wrap.
Plain Jane
Renata, you're on the front lines of a lot of the conversations when it comes to “everybody's Jane Austen.”
As a board member with JASNA, director, and also chair of the IDE committee, what are you seeing, what are the challenges and then also what are the excitements that you're seeing in our conversations about Jane Austen?
Renata Dennis
Well, I think one of the things I'll mention, I want to make sure that everybody's represented where decisions are being made.
And one of the things that we did, we started back in December, I think: We've rewritten the bylaws that were I think 20-something years old. Before the internet age. … But one of the first things we did, we've talked about student membership: The students get free membership. We helped redefine what the word student meant…. It normally is ninth grade through college and graduate school. And I said, ‘Students go to vocational school also, and trade school.’ And so we decided that anybody that is in a course of study that includes where you get a license or certificate or a diploma … If you are interested in Jane Austen, you're included as a student. So that's something that we did. That broadens who's a student and who has access to free JASNA membership for this next year. And hopefully that will continue.
Plain Jane
What would both of you like to see in the conversations going forward about Jane Austen? Tia, as a creative and a consumer of Jane Austen's stories, and Renata, as someone who's in leadership in the Jane Austen Society of North America, what do you want us to take away from this day? And what do you want to see that maybe you're not seeing?
Or what do you want to continue seeing that you are seeing in our conversations about Jane Austen and everybody's Jane Austen?
Renata Dennis
Well, in the previous presentation there was a note where a group of kids did a production … I'd like to see more of that happen. I will do a shameless plug for the Jane Austen Book Box.
Lena Yasutake, who is here, that's her concept. It's been a couple of years, and we realized we got Jane Austen in high school, but a lot of people don't get Austen at all in school. She and I looked at a couple of the universities in Atlanta that have an English degree. They're required to read Shakespeare, but not Austen.
Plain Jane
This is incredible, the Jane Austen Book Box. Can you just tell us a little bit about what this is?
Renata Dennis
It is a program where you can have a school program, a library program, after-school summer program. You fill out an application. It comes to Lisa Brown, who is part of the Upper State New York JASNA group. She's a coordinator. She runs it for us. And you fill out an application and say what you're going to do as far as a curriculum. You have to report back to us. And Jane Austen Books out of Cleveland, Ohio will send the books to you at cost.
So the first … group that got it. I can give you two examples: A group in Louisiana and a group in Texas. They were summer programs for minority children, Black children, teens. One of the groups was all boys. The other group was a mixed group, and I know that they've gotten together to write their own Austen-based plays based on their own contemporary culture.
That's what I would like to see.
Tia A. Smith
Great. I mean, that's exciting. … I want to see more Regency films. I want to see more of [Austen’s] work. Do exactly that. See what other interpretations there are. That's beautiful.
… For me, it's making sure I always believe and love the foundation as a creator. So, finding that balance to express yourself with those foundations. So, continuing to do that. And then seeing more interpretations. That's what I'd love to see.
Plain Jane
Okay, and we hope that we'll be able to see more Tia Smith interpretations.
Tia A. Smith
Stand by, as we say!
—---
Thank you for engaging with this conversation. This conversation continues - to hear the Q&A portion, listen to the audio by simply clicking Play above - or you can also find and follow the podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
And: Let us know - do you feel similarly about any of the topics brought up in this conversation? Have you felt that our costume dramas are too often erasing Black lives, people of color, and important figures from our history, and are you excited to see diverse casting addressing this? What would you like to see or hear in our conversations about how Jane Austen is for Everybody going forward? Let us know!
And thank you to the Everybody's Jane Austen organizers, Sarah Rose Kearns and Fran Winter and the team at JASNA Metro New York Region.
Cool links and community:
Here’s more about Hallmark’s 2024 Sense and Sensibility film and here’s where you can see more about producer Tia A. Smith and her production company.
Historical Regency-era heiress Dido Elizabeth Belle and also Black abolitionist Regency writer Olaudah Equiano are both portraits featured in the settings of 'the film.
Belle the movie, inspired by the real life of Dido Elizabeth Belle.
Author Vanessa Riley writes historical fiction drawing from real lives and deep research on 18th and 19th century Black history. She also talked with us for this Austen Connection podcast episode.
Historian Gretchen Gerzina has written several books unearthing the lives of 18th and 19th century Black British figures and communities.
The Race and the Regency Lab and its director, scholar Dr. Patricia Matthew
Professor Henry Louis Gates’ series of books
UK Historian David Olusoga produced an extremely moving and all-encompassing series on Britain’s Black past, Africa and Britain: A Forgotten History, available to stream on Amazon Prime and elsewhere.
UCL’s Centre for the Study of the Legacies of British Slavery, and the educational initiative “Colonial Countryside: Reinterpreting English Country Houses” - insightful historic companions to our readings of Mansfield Park and Austen.
Learn more about JASNA and find a group near you. And here’s more information about the Jane Austen Book Box program.
Learn more about designer Kara Saun and Disney's Descendants.
Learn more about stylist Kim Kimble.
Coming this spring from PBS Masterpiece - a “heartbreaking story of sisterly love”: Miss Austen! This is a television series adapting Gill Hornby’s book Miss Austen, and starring UK actor Keeley Hawes, who happens to be married to an actor named Matthew Macfadyen. If you know, you know. 😉
Music for the podcast episode is by: Nico Staf, Patrick Patrikios, RKVC, and we went out with music by Amy Lynn and the Honey Men, all from YouTube’s Free Music Archive or DeWolfe Music.
If you enjoyed this post, feel free to share it!
Share this post